CBC Montreal interview with Von Allan on Homerun (September 27, 2018)

Just prior to the September 27, 2018 screening of the documentary film I AM STILL YOUR CHILD in Montreal as part of the 2018 Low-Beer Memorial Lecture (photos from the event are here), I scampered over to CBC Montreal to do an interview with Sue Smith on the drive home show "Homerun." And thanks to the CBC's Loreen Pindera, I now have an audio copy of the interview I can share!

You can listen to the interview by clicking here or by clicking play on the old timey audio player below. In addition, a lightly edited transcript is provided below.

Lightly Edited Transcript

Sue Smith: You know, we often talk about getting resources for people struggling with a mental illness. But what we don’t hear about are the children who act as caregivers for their own parents who live with a mental illness. Montreal filmmaker Megan Durnford saw this as a problem. So she made a documentary featuring three people who grew up as child caregivers.

Audio excerpt from the documentary film “I Am Still Your Child”: It can be a lot with mom and school, but like, thankfully she’s not super needy right now and I help her when I’m able to. You know, if something happened with her, I don’t care about my essay. Like, I’m going to do whatever she needs me to do because her mental health is more important than my grade for this class.

Sue Smith: That’s the voice of Jessie Bokser, one of three people featured in the documentary, “I Am Still Your Child.” Von Allan is also in the film. Von’s mother struggled with schizophrenia. She died more than 20 years ago. And Von joins me in the studio. Thanks for coming in, Von.

Von Allan: Oh, you’re very welcome. Hi.

Sue Smith: Hi. So I just came from the film. I’ve just finished watching it. It’s pretty emotional.

Von Allan: Yeah.

Sue Smith: So tell me a little bit about your story. What was it like growing up with a mother with schizophrenia?

Von Allan: It was tough. My mom had problems even before I was born, I’ve subsequently found out. So she was ‘mom’ when I was a little kid. And it was only as I got older, probably around nine, maybe even ten, that her problems — I think her ability to hide her problems from me diminished. And I was an only child. It was just me and my mom. And then her ability to want to talk to me more about it — to be more open about it — also increased.

But at the same time, her situation was getting tougher. She was having nervous breakdowns and [would be] hospitalized for a while. And so she would sometimes disappear for a few days, a few weeks. And then she’d be back and she’d be ‘mom.’ In hindsight, it was a more disruptive upbringing. At the time, I knew we were poor. I knew we were struggling. I didn’t know that things were, quote unquote, ‘wrong’ with my mom, until I became an early teenager. And I sort of realized ‘she’s not really like other moms.’ She’s smart. She’s capable. And then sometimes she’s not. So it was a unique upbringing. And there wasn’t anybody to talk to about it either.

Sue Smith: No. And you have this line that you say in the film that just came back to me as something like poverty, bankruptcy, schizophrenia, all three together. That was rough. I mean, that’s rough.

Von Allan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I’ve particularly as an adult, I get sometimes stunned by the courage it must have taken my mom to be trying to raise a kid, having these issues, and then — because we declared bankruptcy around when I was 12 or 13 and then we were on welfare in Ontario — she was trying to navigate a somewhat dysfunctional social service system then. And in many ways, it’s gotten much worse now. And I don’t know how she did it. And she did it without an ombudsman or an advocate. I was too young. There wasn’t anybody else. My mom and dad split when I was very, very young.

Sue Smith: Although you talk about the spaghetti incident in the film as a time when you did call your dad in. So it does seem like maybe once in a while he was able to help you.

Von Allan: Yeah, I think I was lucky for some of that stuff is my dad was in my life. I wasn’t living with him, but he was in my life. And through sort of the separation agreement, I would see him fairly regularly. So he was somebody there that I could, when things got really bad, between when my mom was hospitalized, I could stay with. So I wasn’t being, you know, put into foster care.

Sue Smith: Well, that’s what I was going to say. It’s kind of remarkable that your mother was able to keep you.

Von Allan: And I really wonder about that. Again, it’s one of those things where, as a kid, I have memories of social workers coming into our house and our house was pretty crappy. Our apartment was pretty crappy. And I know I was embarrassed by it a lot. But these — strangers from my point of view — would come in and sort of evaluate. And I have no idea to this day; was it close that somebody was like, “this kid should be somewhere else?” Or was it not? I have no idea. It’s those things that — particularly when you’re a little kid or even just a kid — you don’t have the context unless somebody really sits you down and talks to you about it. And for the most part… I mean, my mom was pretty open about some of what she was going through, again, into my teen years. But things like that, I had no idea.

Sue Smith: Now, you’re a graphic artist and you wrote a book about it, which is featured in the film, “the road to god knows…”. How did that or did that help you sort of somehow process some of this stuff? Because this is like really tough stuff for a nine-year-old, a 12-year-old. Even as an adult, it must be hard to process.

Von Allan: Yeah, well, it was certainly tough to kind of revisit it. But in a way, particularly after my mom died and I sort of set out on drawing and what have you, I knew for was my first book — particularly for a first story — I wanted to do something that was really personal to me. And at that time, looking around, there wasn’t anything else like that out there. So I thought this might be the kind of story that’s worth telling.

It’s fictionalized. So the main character is a girl named Marie, not me. So it’s sort of a fictionalized biography or autobiography, but that allowed me to play with a bit of time and compress certain events. But yeah, for the most part, all of it is true, except for me fictionalizing some of my friends a little bit.

Sue Smith: Yeah, of course. That’s why they’re still your friends, probably. So one of the things that’s really brought up a few times in the film is how when you have a parent who struggles with mental health issues, that affects your own mental health as a child. How has that affected your own mental health or even just worrying about your own mental health?

Von Allan: Yeah, I think worrying. I’ve probably been lucky, and it’s one of those things especially with schizophrenia, as more data comes out, it seems to be more of a genetic disease than anything else. So I remember, particularly in my 20s, kind of wondering, because my recollections of my mom were lots of moments; like days, weeks, months of lucidity, and then ups and downs, really just bumpy and unpredictable. So very, very strange.

And also her sense of reality, particularly with that disease, was very, very tough. Certainly things I knew she told me didn’t happen, but then there were other allegations, particularly sexual abuse and stuff, that may have happened and may not have happened. It’s impossible to disentangle. And in that case, everybody is dead. So there’s just no way to know. And so for myself, particularly at that time, it was tough and I worried a bit about it.

But as you get older and you kind of navigate your own life and what have you, it’s okay. So certainly there are… Because with my mom, there’s a difference between being unhappy — being discouraged by events — and being devastated by them. And I have memories of my mom not being able to get out of bed. Like she just… I’d get up to go to school, get my own breakfast, off I go, come home, and she’d still be in bed. And it’s just there were… she had anxiety issues on top of everything else. And then when you throw in depression, she also had migraines. And then I think it’s important to say, too, is that her physical health — particularly into her 40s, and she died at 48; she died very young — that also started to play an increasing role in all of the difficulties. So she’s not only dealing with a mental illness and trying to navigate a social system and get the help that she needs. And she was able to do some of that. But then her nutrition was awful. She gained a lot of weight. I have vivid memories of… She lost teeth. So, she couldn’t smile properly anymore. So it was just… you throw all of this stuff together and it sort of means that your sense of dignity — your sense of self-esteem — really diminishes. And you’re getting hit from what you’re struggling with, and then you’re getting hit from an outside, all these other events that are happening around you, and particularly poverty. It’s really tough.

Sue Smith: I mean, all these things that you’re talking about — poverty, mental illness, and the kind of, you know, letting yourself go, fearing your own mental illness — these are all really taboo subjects. And you are speaking about them super openly. Why is it important? Why did you decide to do this? What do you want people to know?

Von Allan: I think the bottom line is that a mental illness — any mental illness — is just that. It’s an illness. It’s a disease. It’s like cancer. And the people who have it, it’s not because they screwed up. It’s not that they’ve made personal decisions and they haven’t taken personal responsibility for their actions. It’s dumb luck. And it’s bad luck. And I think the worst thing that people can do is be scared of it. And in a way, because of the way I grew up…

Sue Smith: But it is scary.

Von Allan: It is scary, but a lot of things are scary. A lot of diseases, a lot of things that go wrong with our bodies, in just the physical sense, can be really scary, can be really difficult. But it didn’t mean my mom was any less loving. It didn’t mean she was any less compassionate or empathic or anything. She was, in her own way, a remarkable human being. And I still find to this day the thing I find most unfair about it is she died when I was 20. So I never got to know her as an adult. I came to art late. She never saw me draw. I’ve been married for 20 years. She never met my wife. This stuff is… All of these things are the costs that any illness, but mental illness, can extract on people, on human beings, on families. And it’s tough. And it’s not fair.

The big reason to get involved in the film and do the graphic novel is to help share her story. And to tell people, ‘yeah, there are scary moments.’ I’d be lying if my mom didn’t scare me at times. There were really terrifying things. The spaghetti incident is one, you know. She basically lost it and went crazy for a little while. And I don’t use that word lightly, but she scared the crap out of me when I was about 11 years old. And started smashing things and what have you. But that was a very small microcosm of what her entire situation was. And honestly, when you go through this, it gets less scary. So the first nervous breakdown, very scary. You know, the first episodes that she had — schizophrenic episodes — was very scary. The fifth, the sixth, less scary. It just is. You get more experienced with it. And at the same time, I think the lucky thing for me as a kid, I was getting older. So it got easier.

Sue Smith: It’s just a really compelling story, Von. And you tell it in a wonderful way here in person, but also in the film. Thank you so much for coming in.

Von Allan: You’re very welcome.

Sue Smith: My guest is Von Allan. He’s one of three people featured in the documentary “I Am Still Your Child.” There’s a free screening of the film tonight. It’s at Oscar Peterson Concert Hall at 7 o’clock. That’s at Concordia [University], at Loyola [Campus]. There’s going to be a panel discussion with the cast and crew. Our Loreen Pindera is leading that. And it’s online. It’s part of our ‘Absolutely Quebec’ film series here of CBC Montreal. And we will tweet out that link. It’s really excellent.

CBC Ottawa's All In A Day

Way back in 2007, I had a very nice chat with Adrian Harewood, then host of the CBC Ottawa radio program All In A Day. This was actually a very special moment for me; I had been a long-time fan of the show and I listened to it quite regularly while I was working away at my drawing board. Needless to say it was cool — and intimidating — to be invited on as a guest. I think I managed to over my nerves pretty quickly and we proceeded to discuss comics in Canada as well as my part in an art show at the Parkdale Gallery (owned and operated by artist James Robinson). The show was titled “Comic Book Chaos” and featured a number of Ottawa-area cartoonists and comic book artists. Sadly, the Parkdale Gallery has now closed; running a gallery is never easy, but I was quite disappointed when James was forced to shut it down.

You can listen by clicking right here or by clicking play on the little player below. In addition, a lightly-edited transcript of our discussion is provided below.

Lightly Edited Transcript

Adrian Harewood: For decades it was seen as disposable art, but throughout December an Ottawa Art Gallery is celebrating comic book art. The Parkdale Gallery is holding an exhibit called “Comic Book Chaos.” An Ottawa artist, Eric Julien, is featured in the show. He’s the artist behind the graphic novel “the road to god knows…” and he draws under the pen name Von Allan. Eric joins us in our studio. Hi Eric.

Von Allan: Hi.

Adrian Harewood: Thanks so much for coming in.

Von Allan: Oh, my pleasure.

Adrian Harewood: Eric, you’ve been invited to exhibit as part of this show. Why do you think comic strips belong in art galleries?

Von Allan: I think for the longest time they weren’t — particularly the art form of comics — wasn’t really considered that important.

Adrian Harewood: Why?

Von Allan: I don’t know. I think, well, I think part of it is that one of the things — one of my picky points — has always been that a lot of people confuse comics as a medium and the genre. And the genre in North America has traditionally been superheroes. And not that there’s anything wrong with that, but that would be like saying all literature has to be romance novels. And there’s far more depth to the medium than that. And because of that disconnect, you’ve had, to my mind, people thinking that superheroes equal kids stuff. It’s not really relevant. So why would it ever be in a gallery? It doesn’t belong there. So it really has no place.

Adrian Harewood: It’s almost seen — perhaps in some quarters — as being too popular, as serving the masses.

It certainly is and was a populist medium, for sure. I mean, there was a time, not really that long ago, where comics were found on every corner newsstand. And that’s where people would go. I mean, the comic book shop as a retail store is really something that’s only come in through the mid to late 70s. And that sort of changed the purchasing arrangement of how comics were consumed. And it also meant that they became more collectible. And it’s the collectible part that kind of bugs me sometimes.

Adrian Harewood: How did you become a graphic novelist?

Von Allan: It’s a weird story. I used to run Perfect Books down on Elgin Street. I was sort of selling other people’s creativity, not my own. And I’ve always loved comics. They’ve always spoken to me. And I was kind of a lonely, insecure kid. They were good escapism for me. And it was totally superheroes I was escaping into. And I never thought I could do this. I never thought I could draw. And for a variety of happy circumstances, I took a shot at it. I just got over that hump and I took a shot. I sucked for a long time. But I started drawing and I got better. And I think I’ve gotten better now. And it was just the leap of faith.

Adrian Harewood: Was it an epiphany? Did you just wake up one morning and say, “I can do this as well.”

Von Allan: I thought I could write. I didn’t really think I could draw. And then I was lucky enough to start meeting a few people who were artists, partially through the bookstore. And I started getting an insight into the work involved, the bad days, the struggle, the struggle to get better, all that kind of stuff. And it sounds so naive. I sound so silly with it. But I really thought that artists of all stripes, not just comics, were kind of hit with a magic wand when they were born. And they were an artist and the talent was always there.

Adrian Harewood: They were made that way.

Von Allan: They were made that way. And if you didn’t have that, if you weren’t part of that secret society, you couldn’t do it. And that’s totally false.

Adrian Harewood: You’ve proved it. You have your your new novel part of your graphic novel, “the road to god knows…” is featured in this exhibit. And it was recently published online. Can you walk me through the story?

Von Allan: It’s about a teenage girl dealing with her mom’s schizophrenia.

Adrian Harewood: Her name is Marie.

Von Allan: Her name is Marie and she’s going through some tough times. The story set in Ottawa. And it’s, I guess you would call it is a “slice of life” story. And what I tried to do with it was tell a story that hopefully resonates, if I’ve done my job right, and doesn’t try to give any pat answers to what mental illness — or in this case — what schizophrenia is. In a way, I think the story might disappoint a few people who — by the time they end this, like they’ve closed the last page — they might be a little bit disappointed that there isn’t a happy resolution. Mental illness isn’t something you resolve in one fell swoop. There is a subplot. There is a subplot that keeps the story going that I think will give it some closure. It was something I thought was important to deal with. It speaks to me personally from some of my own experiences in my life. And it was different than a lot of stuff that’s out there.

Adrian Harewood: I was gonna ask you that question, because you call it a slice of life story. How much of it is a slice of your life?

Von Allan: If you can imagine I’m a teenage girl, it’s pretty close. I drew a lot of my own experiences. Some comic book artists — like Seth and what have you, Chester Brown — have done a lot of autobiographical material. I was a little bit hesitant for a variety of reasons. The main one is that I find fiction lets you play with time a little bit. If it’s pure autobiography, you run into the pesky details of representing real human beings who may not be so keen on how you’re depicting them. With fiction, you can play with it. I made amalgams of different people. I think I made amalgams of myself in it. I don’t consider Marie myself. She’s one permutation of what I could have been or who I might have been. And it is a lot more freeing to write a script like that.

Adrian Harewood: Clearly, this is a story for people to read, to look at. But how much of it is therapy?

Von Allan: I don’t think… I don’t ever want to call it that, but it probably was therapeutic for me. I don’t want to be didactic and getting up on a soapbox, or anything like that with it. I don’t think there are any easy answers. I think in a way — again, if I’ve done my job right — I’m raising questions about mental illness, at least how one family copes with it. That’s probably as far as I’m willing to go. This is just one look at it.

Adrian Harewood: What do you think graphic novels can do that straight novels can’t?

Von Allan: They present visuals in a way that’s different than a film or TV or anything like that. And can be differently nuanced than fiction. I don’t think one medium is superior to the other or anything like that. I love novels and I’ve happily sold fantastic books that I strongly believe in. But I do think that it’s something about the combination of how words and pictures — if you get into “left brain, right brain” theory — works in a way that’s different fundamentally than what film and literature bring. It’s that very difference that makes comics and graphic novels so special.

Adrian Harewood: How did you go about selecting which pages you wanted to display in the gallery?

Von Allan: That was tricky. Partially because in a way it’s almost counter-intuitive to what the graphic novel is supposed to be. I mean, each page flows sequentially to try to tell a story. So taking some of those pages out of context kind of concerned me a little bit. Really, it came down to trying to find images that I thought worked on their own, kind of told a story in and of themselves. A lot of these were sort of splash pages, larger pages that I thought would work okay on a wall. It’s still a bit of a different experience. I’m hoping people like it. It is a little unusual, though, to do it. I think I picked well. We’ll see.

Adrian Harewood: This really seems to be the golden age in some ways for graphic novels. Even in this country, I’m thinking… you mentioned Chester Brown and his great novel “Louis Riel.” One person whom I love, Ho Che Anderson.

Von Allan: Yeah, Ho Che Anderson is amazing.

Adrian Harewood: What is it about? What’s going on in Canada right now that we’re producing so many fine graphic novelists?

Von Allan: Without sounding too trite, I think the medium is growing up. I think that, for a long time, it was that superhero — sort of dogmatic, bam, that’s what it was. People are now trying different things. Bookstores are way more approachable now with carrying them. Almost every bookstore at least has a couple of graphic novels in. There was a time if they were there at all, they were in the kids section. That certainly helped. The talent has gotten a lot better. It’s a lot more varied. We need more publishers pursuing it and trying to find good works, bringing that work to the public and showing it off.

Adrian Harewood: You’re trying to break into a pretty tough industry. What do you think you need to do to succeed?

Von Allan: I wish I had the answer for that. It has been a really tricky thing. And I ran a bookstore! I wish I had more insights than I do. You keep pushing, you stay optimistic. You hope the work resonates. Connections, you really you have no idea. I think sometimes it’s a crapshoot. I will say I wish sometimes there was a little bit more attention to graphic novels with some of the award categories. But that’s a pipe dream of mine right now. That’s not quite there yet.

Adrian Harewood: I want you to make your pitch right now. Why should people go and go and see this exhibit at the gallery?

Von Allan: There is amazing stuff. And it’s not just mine. If you want to see different artwork, artwork that will stick in your gut, artwork that is colorful, it’s bold, it’s doing different stuff. I mean, there’s Ottawa artists like Ronn Sutton, who people don’t even know that are there. You know, it’s magic. There’s some amazing work going on right there. And I think it’s not all just comics or anything like that. But I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised if you go. Take a look.

Adrian Harewood: Eric, great to talk to you. Nice to meet you. Thanks so much for coming in.

Von Allan: Thanks very much.

Adrian Harewood: Eric Julien also goes by his pen name Von Allan. You can check out his graphic novel “the road to god knows…” at www.girlamatic.com. Some of Eric’s work is also on display at the Parkdale Gallery as part of the “Comic Book Chaos” Exhibit. And the show runs until January 1st.

CCKC Interview November 20, 2009

This is a radio interview I did with Erin Ashley on CCKC radio in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia in the fall of 2009. We discuss my graphic novel “the road to god knows…” and how Children of Parents with a Mental Illness (or COPMI) cope. Or at least how I did. You can listen to the interview by clicking here, playing it using the audio player below, or you can read the lightly edited transcript of the interview just below the audio player.

Lightly Edited Transcript

Erin Ashley: My name is Erin Ashley. I am about to kick out the jams, but I got one little thing left to share with you. And that is about graphic novel “the road to god knows…”, which introduces the reader to teenage Marie. She’s trying to adjust to her mother’s recent mental health diagnosis. Now, schizophrenia is a lonely disease, and graphic novelist Von Allan is one unfortunate soul who knows all about it. Growing up, Von and his mother suffered through her mental illness, but the experience wasn’t completely negative. After all, he was inspired to write “the road to god knows…”, a semi-autobiographical comic which he hopes will help others living with the disease. I got a hold of him via telephone, and this is what he had to say.

I’m curious about the circumstances around publishing this novel. Is this something you put out yourself, or did you have to shop it around a little bit?

Von Allan: I actually put it out by myself. I did shop it around a little bit. It’s a first book, and I’m an unknown creator, so it’s hard right now in publishing to get people to pay attention to you. And I didn’t shop it around to too many publishers, but I decided, you know, you sort of go through the rejection process and what have you, and it’s pretty difficult for any author, no matter how successful they are. And I just went, “it’s a pretty personal book for me. I’d like to be able to control it.” Aside from anything else, it’s pretty autobiographical. So choosing this route, doing the self-publishing route, seemed to fit it really well. And so far the reception is pretty good. Nobody seems to care all that much that I self-published it. So, “yay” for that!

Erin Ashley: Now, you’ve written “the road to god knows…” to create a dialogue about mental illness. Why do you feel a graphic novel was the best way to achieve this?

Von Allan: Well, I love comics. I’ve loved comics since I was about seven or eight years old. And I think comics have a unique power as a medium to actually communicate a little differently than how prose does and how film does. There’s been a lot of different discussion in the past about why comics work the way they do. Some people do “right brain, left brain” theory, that there’s something about the combination of words and pictures, and how they sort of just get right into your head that’s remarkably powerful.

And more pragmatically, too, is when I was sort of trying to figure out what story I wanted to do for my first one, it seemed to be something that not very many other people have tackled. So, as opposed to doing another superhero story or something like that that’s been pretty well done to death in comics, doing something more personal, doing something that not very many other people have tried to tackle, seemed to be a really good way to go.

Erin Ashley: Yeah, definitely. I know it says in your bio that you kind of dealt with a lot of the same things that Marie deals with in the graphic novel. And you actually took solace and refuge in basically the land of make-believe, like wrestling and comic books, like you were saying earlier. So what was so comforting about that land of make-believe?

Von Allan: I think the big thing is that it’s escape. I mean, one of the things when you’re going through something like this — I’m saying this now that I know this. I’m an adult and I can look back on it and what have you, but the story is really autobiographical, aside from the fact that the main character is a girl. Things are really confusing. My mom wasn’t well. I didn’t know why. My mom had went through a lot of nervous breakdowns while I was growing up. And a lot of things didn’t make sense to me. And that confusion is scary. I was scared a lot. I remember being really terrified a lot. Not so much of my mom, but I didn’t understand what would trigger things. I didn’t understand why these things were happening to her. And I was totally powerless.

You know, it’s my mom. I love her. And this stuff is happening and I can’t help. I don’t have the tools to help her. And nobody’s talking to me either. Nobody in the healthcare profession or what have you at the time was able to really communicate with me — sort of push me aside or pull me aside — and explain what was happening.

So, what do you do? You know, you’re going to school. You’re trying to do this stuff and you try to live your life. And I found a sort of happiness and joy in escapism. And I think a lot of kids probably do. So, for me, it was comics. I was lucky enough to meet up with friends who were really into comics and I just fell in love with them. Stuff as silly as pro wrestling like the book talks about. Also science fiction and what have you. It was just things where what was going on was really confusing in my own life. So being able to just sort of stop thinking about it, stop worrying about it, even if it’s only for a couple of hours, did me a lot of good.

Erin Ashley: Okay. So what’s next for Von Allan?

Von Allan: Well, I mean, I’m trying to get this book out there now. And at the same time, I’m working on my next story. So this is going to be very different. It’s called “Stargazer.” And it’s going to be more of a kid’s story with adult themes. So I’m a little this way, you know. I always like doing stories that have reasonably heavy subject matter. So it deals with a lot of themes of death and letting go of things because that’s part of life, too.

It’s funny. When I tried to figure out what to do, I was thinking, ‘what could I follow up “the road to god knows…” with?’ And I wanted to do something at least thematically similar, if not exactly the same thing. So “Stargazer” is a fantasy. But ironically, it does actually tie into that, you know, how “road” works as well. It’s just I had some more things to say.

Erin Ashley: And so when “Stargazer” going to hit shelves, do you think?

Von Allan: I don’t know. I’m 60 pages in. It’s going to start as a webcomic; barring anything weird happening, it will start as a webcomic first. So for free online. And people can find more about that in my website. And that should actually happen in the next month or so. And then we’ll see if it’s popular enough. Then it’ll become a book, as well.

Erin Ashley: Thanks a lot for joining me today, Von Allan.

Von Allan: Oh, you’re very welcome. Thanks for giving me your time.